In this podcast, Heidrick & Struggles’ Victoria Reese speaks to Deborah Farone, a strategic marketing consultant for professional services; a former chief marketing officer of two global law firms, Cravath, Swain & Moore and Debevoise & Plimpton; and the author of Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing. Reese and Farone discuss the importance of building a personal brand and networking for an in-house counsel and what skill sets are most important to highlight as they do so. Farone also shares some misperceptions around in-house legal talent and what highlights the importance of having a good reputation.

Some key questions answered in this podcast include:

• (2:43) Why is personal brand and network building for an in-house counsel important? Why is it critical to amplify your reputation both internally and externally?
• (4:20) What are the most important skill sets and capabilities for in-house counsel to highlight as they brand themselves? How do they identify the base that they want to tap into, both internally and externally?
• (8:00) What are some of the misperceptions around in-house legal talent? How does an in-house counsel build rapport with their internal clients and challenge some of the biases internally around what in-house counsel can offer?
• (9:07) Why is it important for a general counsel to develop a network with a peer general counsel? 
• (11:43) Looking ahead, what advice would you give senior in-house counsel around how to build their brand and their network?

Below is a full transcript of the episode, which has been edited for clarity.

Welcome to the Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Heidrick is the premier global provider of senior-level executive search and leadership consulting services. Diversity and inclusion, leading through tumultuous times, and building thriving teams and organizations are among the core issues we talk with leaders about every day, including in our podcasts. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Victoria Reese: Hi, I'm Victoria Reese, the global managing partner of Heidrick & Struggles’ Legal, Risk, Compliance & Government Affairs Practice and the head of the Corporate Officers Practice. In today's podcast, I'm talking to Deborah Farone, a strategic marketing consultant in the professional services industry and a former chief marketing officer of two global law firms, Cravath and Debevoise. Deborah, welcome, and thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.

Deborah Farone: Victoria, I'm delighted to be here. 

Victoria Reese: At Heidrick & Struggles, we’re focused on leadership and agility across all industries and organizational models. To kick off this discussion, can you share the leadership capability shift you experienced going from working at large firms to becoming an entrepreneur?

Deborah Farone: Sure. I think there are some big, big differences, but there are similarities, too: you still manage a very heavy workload and you're very much aware of your own objectives, and you have certain goals. But there are those big differences—when I was in-house at Cravath and at Debevoise, I was very attuned to the fact that there were always deadlines that we were juggling. And, I think, on your own, you're also very attuned to the fact that you have deadlines that you’re juggling for clients. So, it’s just the client has changed. It's no longer the client down the hall, it's the client who’s paying that monthly bill and you’re very aware of what you can and can’t do in order to get something done.

Second, there’s this burden that you have when you’re on the outside. You’re always making sure that you're learning. My practice is a very bespoke practice. I work with general counsel and law firms. So, I’m always aware that I need to be delivering the best possible quality of work and the best service possible. That means constantly talking to industry leaders like you at Heidrick & Struggles, but also listening to the latest podcasts and studying reports and data—anything that comes out that could affect your clients, you want to know about it. So that is a little bit different than being on the inside, where that data is always coming to you automatically.

Victoria Reese: You have experience as both a chief marketing officer and a consultant, and you authored a book: Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing, which is a resource for law firm leaders on how to create and develop firm cultures to encourage business development. This was, of course, for outside counsel. Why is personal brand and network building for an in-house counsel also important? Why is it critical to amplify your reputation both internally and externally?

Deborah Farone: That's a great question. I really think the paradigm has changed in recent years and all of us now consider each other’s reputations, and we think about it very often when we're meeting someone new. Very often, before you're meeting with someone, even if it's within your own company, you’ll check with your colleagues and you'll say, “What do you think of Victoria? I'm about to meet her. What should I know?” Or you'll do the mature thing and Google her just to see if there's anything you can learn. You'll look on LinkedIn and see what she writes about or what she likes or what she comments on.

And I think the general counsel’s office used to be seen as the department of “no.” But it’s more and more important to in-house people to have very strong relationships with their line managers and their key business units. And so, in making sure that those relationships are good, they’re more concerned than ever with reputation and really understanding those lines of business. So, I think we have seen that shift over the past few years.

Victoria Reese: Continuing on that theme, what are the most important skill sets and capabilities for in-house counsel to highlight as they brand themselves? How do they identify the base that they want to tap into, both internally and externally?

Deborah Farone: I tend to think of this somewhat as a visual. So, if you think about concentric circles, with one circle bigger than the next, the first circle at the very base is capability. And I think having the right capabilities is the most important—so making sure that you’re an outstanding lawyer, and also understanding what it is that you’re lawyering for. So, if you're lawyering for a particular practice of a management consulting firm, you have to really understand that practice because that's going to add to your capabilities. I think that's the number one most important thing to concentrate on.

But I also believe that treating other in-house counsels well and also treating the line management and executives well is also key. You know, it used to be that you could maybe be a part-time jerk. You could be someone who lost their temper and you could maybe get away with it as long as you were doing it with only certain people. And I don't think that works any longer. I think reputation spreads quickly. So, I think having that reputation and really treating people well both inside and outside of the firm is important.

And then, lastly, I would say to look at how someone networks and how they do things like use LinkedIn. The ability to hone network skills and have a really great EQ and empathy barometer with other people is key. I think those are skills that are a differentiator that I’m seeing in terms of how people succeed.

Victoria Reese: A recent Heidrick survey of general counsel underscored how their role has evolved in influence regarding both the decision-making processes of companies and in setting their moral direction beyond just pure legal issues. How would you advise an excellent law firm partner in making that transition when they go in-house? What will be the learning curve for many?

Deborah Farone: What I've seen is that an in-house counsel role is different because you’re now living with the client. They are all around you, and they’re not a phone call away or a Zoom call away. If you’re in your office, they’re next door. You’re not just going to be managing your relationship with your client and maybe handling some associates. You need to manage up, sideways, and down. People are going to be looking to you for advice on all different levels. It’s a wider range of experiences. There will be people that you’re handling assignments for, and there will be people that you’re giving assignments to. And it’s just a more ecosystem type of environment. But I also think that, again, internal reputation really matters, and it can make or break you within any kind of an organization.

So, at a law firm, you may have been known for being a great rainmaker. And that was terrific, but that doesn’t matter as much once you're in house. You're going to have to be someone who’s known for having great relationships, doing great work, having a clear and ethical reputation. So different thing that matter. And I think staying attuned to those things is really important, as are knowing your audience, knowing what’s important to them, and knowing the culture of the company you’ve joined.

Victoria Reese: What are some of the misperceptions around in-house legal talent? How does an in-house counsel build rapport with their internal clients and challenge some of the biases internally around what in-house counsel can offer?

Deborah Farone: That's a great question, Victoria. I think it’s vital for lawyers to really know their business and to take an interest in the business. The great lawyers that I’ve worked with who are on the inside have really been able to offer business advice—and not just legal advice; they're really part of the team. They're commercial. They're not seen as the department of “no.” And they take the time to really understand what their clients, their internal clients, are doing. So, they’re taking time to attend meetings; they're showing that they care; they're coming up with value-added ideas to help people do their jobs. They're not seen as just the legal department. They're really seen as preferred providers, as far as giving advice.

Victoria Reese: Deborah, why is it important for a general counsel to develop a network with a peer general counsel?

Deborah Farone: The obvious answer is that networking is important for their own careers and if they ever need a job. But really there’s so much more about crafting a good network with other GCs. I think the first and most obvious reason it’s important is that it can help keep you up to speed on regulatory changes that might impact common industries. So, just being able to ask someone how they’re dealing with this or that issue can save hours of research and it can help dispel uncertainty. It could be that there’s a change in cyber regulation or you’re in consumer products and maybe there are changes in packaging standards. Having that network allows you to ask someone how they’re facing it and get some input.

I think it’s also important to be able to compare notes on the performance of various vendors. In the area of legal operations, for instance, there’s a greater ability to pick and choose the framework and vendors. You might want to be able to ask someone what they thought of the performance of a particular company. Or even why they decided to select a certain law firm. So, asking if they’re happy with the firm and its work on a particular type of matter makes great sense.

And third of all, I think networking is important when it comes to hiring people. You can ask those in your network who they know, if they know of anyone who’s great at compliance, for instance, or if someone in their network may have recently met with a person who’s right for the role you’re looking to fill. There's that old philosophy—and Victoria, we've talked about this—that good people know other good people. So, these types of referrals can be helpful in locating those types of folks.

Fourth: in general, when you have a network, you become part of an influencer circle, and that means you get invited to sit on panels. You're asked questions by reporters; you’re viewed as an expert in your industry. And in many cases, this is all a by-product of the company that you keep. So, I think establishing a network is really a vital part of setting yourself up for success. It's not enough to look inside an organization and think about who you're networking with within that company. But I think you need to look outside, and Victoria, I know that you’ve often helped introduce GCs to one another and that’s truly an invaluable gift to someone, especially if they aspire to operate at the highest level.

Victoria Reese: Deborah, as we bring this conversation to a close, I wanted to ask one final question, looking ahead, what advice would you give senior in-house counsel around how to build their brand and their network?

Deborah Farone: I love this question. I can think of three things that maybe summarize what I would ask people to do. And when I coach them individually, I very often start with these three questions: 

1. The first is to think about who you admire. Who do you admire within your company? What about outside of your company from a business standpoint? Think about those traits that they have, that you value. Then I would ask myself, “What am I doing to articulate and to mirror those things that I really value?”
2. Second, I would think about how it is that you want to be known, not only what kind of content you want to get out there into the world and what you want to do professionally, but also in terms of those values again. How is it that you want to be perceived? What's important to you?
3. And then, third, I would think about how to make connections that will help not only with reputation building and career building, but also for supportive ideas. I think it’s a great asset for someone to come into a company having lots of contacts in diverse areas, because those are folks that they can call on if they have a question. And having a network that is diverse and widespread and not just in your particular industry can be incredibly valuable. And it’s never too late to start building a network. In fact, if someone once liked working with you and had great experience in working with you, but hasn't talked to you in 10 years, it’s still a good thing to reach out to them because chances are, if they liked you at one point, they'll still like you. So, I would say the third would be making those connections and building a network. 

Victoria Reese: Deborah, thank you for making the time to speak with us today.

Deborah Farone: Thanks, Victoria. It was great fun.

Thanks for listening to the Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. To make sure you don’t miss more future-shaping ideas and conversations, please subscribe to our channel on the podcast app. And if you’re listening via LinkedIn, Twitter, or YouTube, why not share this with your connections? Until next time.

About the interviewer

Victoria Reese (vreese@heidrick.com) is the global managing partner of the Legal, Risk, Compliance & Government Affairs (LRCG) and Corporate Officers practices, and head of the General Counsel Practice; she is based in the New York office.