Welcome to The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Heidrick is the premier global provider of diversified solutions across senior-level executive search, leadership, assessment and development, team and organizational effectiveness, and culture shaping. Every day, we speak with leaders around the world about how they're meeting rising expectations and managing through volatile times, thinking about individual leaders, teams, organizations, and society. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Hi. I'm Lukasz Kiniewicz, partner-in-charge of Heidrick and Struggles’ Warsaw office and a member of the global Technology and Services Practice. In today's podcast, I'm excited to speak to Ken Campbell. 

Ken is the CEO of Play, Poland's leading mobile operator and part of the Iliad Group, Europe's fifth largest telecom group. Over his career, he has led major telecom transformations across Europe, Africa, and North America, served as CEO of Wind Mobile in Canada and Ooredoo in Tunisia, and even founded his own telecom start-up, earning a reputation as a strategic visionary who builds high-performing teams and drives growth in volatile markets. Ken, welcome, and thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. 

Ken Campbell: Good morning, Lukasz, it's a pleasure. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Ken, you've led organizations across multiple markets and industries. How would you describe your personal leadership philosophy today?

Ken Campbell: Well Lukasz, I think I've learned a lot of things in very different circumstances. I think probably the main thing is that there's not always a standard approach. I think every business, every country, every situation has a particular context, and you have to adapt to it, whether it's a start-up or whether it's a more mature business. My philosophy is certainly to take some time to understand the business, first of all, to understand the challenges it faces, to try to take the best—because there are best practices across all markets—and then to implement the approach I take to management. And to answer your question about philosophy, my approach is certainly to challenge people to set targets, to be a very goal-driven organization, a high-performance culture, to always be looking for an ambitious goal to achieve, and to drive the business to new heights, whether that's on the on the top line or perhaps in the areas of efficiencies and technology transformation. And then to really try to harness the value of teams, and I think there's great strength, of course, not only in the overall organization, but within pockets of the organization, creating cultures and subcultures that can drive innovation and drive change and transformation. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Great. Play, a Polish company, was acquired by Iliad in 2020. How do you strike the right balance and unite Iliad's overarching European culture and Play’s own identity within the Polish market? 

Ken Campbell: That's a good question. I think it's a challenge for any multinational operating in Europe or internationally. I think the Iliad culture is very unique, very successful, and it drives performance through a hands-on approach, through a challenging approach. And the great thing about Play is its culture, which is, again, very entrepreneurial, very dynamic, pushing the boundaries, actually has a lot of similarities with the Iliad culture. And so, bringing these groups together—my predecessor certainly did a great job of it, and I'm taking that forward—hasn't been too difficult a challenge. I think if anything, you struggle with how to leverage a group like Iliad in more ways, but culturally I would say despite distances and obviously history, the Iliad culture and the Play culture, both entrepreneurial cultures, both driven to performance goals, are not too far apart. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Speaking about entrepreneurial context, private ownership can often enable faster, more entrepreneurial decision making. So how does this context influence your approach as a CEO?

Ken Campbell: I think we're very encouraged to be entrepreneurial in our approach, to be fast decision makers. I think you've seen that in Play in the past, and even in the most recent past, as we and our partner company PSO [Polish Open Fiber] seek to consolidate the fiber market, as an example. But you also see it on the Play side in how active we are on the consumer side, how we're pushing the boundaries in terms of a converged offering. So yes, we move fast, we make decisions quickly. We have systems and technology in teams that are quite agile, and we're always looking at ways to streamline operations, to streamline decision-making and to move quickly. I mean the race—in this business—really does go to the swiftest. We put the necessary thought into our decision-making, but when it comes time to move and to take action, part of our philosophy is just to move with purpose, and to not sit back and to drive forward our decisions quickly. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: And what leadership capabilities do you think are most critical for working effectively with private owners or family shareholders compared to a public board?

Ken Campbell: Well, I think—and I've worked in both contexts—what I really appreciate about the family or private approach is that they tend to take a much more active role in the business and they understand. And they see right down to very detailed things, you know, what's going on with the business. And those concerns, you either hear about them directly or you hear about them indirectly through our governance structure. I think, you know, not only here, but also my experience in the past, is that with either a family or an individual owning businesses, then you really can move much, much quicker. There's also attention to the cost side, probably more because they, you know, typically they've built their businesses up and they, you know, you don't grow without understanding the value of a dollar. So culturally, you feel it in the organization, Lukasz, you just sense that you're not part of as big a machine as you might be in a large, publicly owned conglomerate. You're part of an entrepreneurial start-up that's creating incredible value and that is that is willing to take risks, the right level of risks, and to move the business forward. So you're constantly looking for ways for improvement. And I think that's how it permeates. I think it's culture, and then that culture of an entrepreneur and families and start-ups permeates throughout the organization, which is something I love. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Yes, we are living in volatile times, and the telecom industry is fast-moving and constantly evolving, and private ownership adds to its own pressures. So how do you navigate this combination of volatility and ownership expectations while keeping your organization steady?

Ken Campbell: Yes, we are in interesting and difficult times. I think in Poland, we're fortunate that we have a fairly stable, or we've had a very stable, macroeconomic situation. Inflation is moving in the right direction, growth is moving in the right direction. So, as opposed to some markets we have that benefit, but we obviously have the geopolitical challenges that we face in that, for shareholders, you want to make them aware of the context that you're operating in, so that there are no surprises. I would say that for an entrepreneur or family owned business of our size—and don't forget we're a multibillion Euro business—the thing that’s critical is just ensuring that communications [are] quick, that if we do need to make changes, we can make them quickly, that we can adapt quickly. I think in uncertain environments it actually creates opportunity for the right entrepreneurs to move faster and move with purpose. And I think you see that, for example, in the consolidation on the fixed-line, where we've been very active. So I, you know, I would say it's all of that. Keeping people aware, understanding beyond the macroeconomics, the political context and the risks, the geopolitical risks that we face, while at the same time making sure that everyone is aware that this kind of environment creates opportunity. And of course, if you work for this kind of an agile organization, it means that you can move that much faster, and I certainly feel and see that we're able to move much faster than our competition. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Yes, speaking about moving faster, we should probably discuss future leaders. As you think about developing the next generation of leaders, what traits or capabilities will separate great leaders from the rest, and how do those differ from the traits that defined leaders in the past decades?

Ken Campbell: What you require as traits probably generally hasn't changed dramatically, although in today's environment and in our industry, you know, an understanding of how technology is going to transform the business is important. And that underlying understanding of how the business is going to evolve and how we can take advantage of opportunities in technology transformation is really important. But, you know, going back to basics, it's about establishing a clear vision for your company and your teams. It's about regular communications and the right type of communications to your team, motivating communications, rewarding when people do a great job and learning from mistakes and calling out both. I think the leadership traits I look for are people that are able to go high and understand the strategy but also go into the depth and the details of the operation and understand the subtleties which is where you can really often drive value in a mature business. I think I look for leaders who are independent and proactive. They're not just driving the bus, they are setting direction. They are proposing new direction. They are challenging their colleagues, and they are challenging me as CEO. And I expect those traits to, of course, continue if they move into a more senior role in the organization. So, to summarize, I don't think the core traits of a leader have changed too much, but I think an ability to understand the current context. And, in particular, I reflect on, you know, technology transformation, because we are in the telecom and technology business. AI is impacting our business or will impact our business. We want it to influence our business. We see data as key to our success. Understanding our customers more, all that sort of stuff, is critical to our success. So, appreciating that is really important, but the core principles haven't changed dramatically, I would say. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: And when planning for succession and developing future leaders, how does culture come into play? Do you think you can train people to be culture leaders too? 

Ken Campbell: Oh, that's a good one. I don't know that you can train people, but I think people can learn and I think you can encourage them to help to encourage a certain culture. The Play business has a very rich culture. When the business started, it was a challenger in the market. It went from zero to hero, from fourth to first on the mobile side, and now we're challenging on [fixed-line]. And so that culture of a challenger, an entrepreneur, a fast mover, is ingrained in the organization and I think people appreciate that. Leaders value that, and they nurture that. Good leaders, I'd say. You can have leaders that perhaps don't share the same values or principles, and those ones are very quickly identified and, you know, at least in my teams, they don't last very long. But those that embrace the values of this organization, they've been here for a while, and as long as they maintain those principles that I mentioned, they're going to continue to be successful. And so yes, I mean, to answer your question, I think people appreciate the value of culture. I think they appreciate the importance of maintaining a strong culture and the secret sauce, the ingredients that we put into maintaining a strong culture. And if you don't get it, then you're probably not going to stay on the bus too long. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Yes. Very interesting thoughts, thank you for that. And Ken, people who've worked with you say you inspire your teams, and you get the best out of them. So how do you approach motivating people and how do you strike a balance between setting big picture directions and ensuring their execution? 

Ken Campbell: I'm the type of leader that likes to get close to what's going on in the operation, spending a lot of time talking to people, management by walking around, visiting. I mean, we're a big company, we've got several 1,000 employees, you obviously can't know everybody. But by getting out to front customer-facing people, you start to understand a lot more about the issues and the challenges that they're facing. So, my approach is really to understand [from the] ground up what's going on in the business, what we need to work on. When I set the strategy, I like to find a rallying cry. By that I mean a clear objective that we need to drive for. So, for example, we're working very hard right now on delivering an exceptional performance in the home. It's been a new platform for us for growth, getting into fiber and broadband into the home. And that experience itself, which is a very detailed and complex experience, has a lot of opportunity, really, to excite the customer, and certainly also has an opportunity to have a negative impact on the customer if you don't do things right. So, a rallying cry for people understanding the customer-facing staff and what they're dealing with, getting the operational issues. And then my approach is, of course, to encourage efforts but reward for results, and to shout out people for exceptional performance every day. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Yes. Continuing this topic: your colleagues, they've always learned a lot from you. Do you see teaching and mentoring as part of your role as a CEO? And if so, how do you integrate that into your leadership?

Ken Campbell: Yes, I think, you know, I'm a Canadian working in a Polish environment for a French company. My job is to certainly help to take the business to new levels, but it's also to work my way out of a job. So yes, I do see developing my people [as important], challenging them with new opportunities and seeing who rises to the occasion, and not only managing them by their objectives but also, you know, giving them tips on how to engage more and [to] become a stronger future leader. I think I've seen that in my role. I'm really proud of people that have worked with me who've gone on to bigger things. And I look for that. I think our role—[in] my role, certainly—is as much about team development and helping people to manage through challenges and learn as anything. I think as leaders it’s really important that you establish that learning culture, because it helps to motivate people, and it helps for them to move on to the next level.

Lukasz Kiniewicz: And thinking about your key leadership lesson and looking back on your career so far, what leadership lesson do you wish you had learned earlier? 

Ken Campbell: These questions are getting harder, Lukasz. You know, there's a lot, I suppose. I think I've learned to be patient in assessing opportunities and in thinking through your strategy. I think, you know, when I started, I would take action without necessarily thinking through the knock-on implications of actions, whether it's from a strategy side or an operational side. And so, one thing I've learned is to think through not just the next step of an action, but the step following an action. That’s certainly one thing. 

Another thing I've learned more, I've appreciated the value of the organization as a series of processes and how you manage the organization. I think that in any company, there's certain indicators that you want to track to make sure that you're healthy. There [are] certain indicators you want to track to make sure you're going to be able to improve your performance and take it to the next level, and there's certain indicators you're going to want to track daily and monthly and then annually, probably. And so how that process works and having a very tight process for all of that management is something I've—well, I've learned to apply, and I've also learned to appreciate a lot more. 

And then probably the third lesson I would say is about your previous question about people and culture. And, you know, it's a cliché, but people say culture trumps strategy. I think that is true. I think culture not only trumps strategy, but culture [also] almost dictates what your capability is, what strategies you're capable of achieving. And in this company, and I think we've seen great success from a very strong culture from the beginning, but the strategy that the company and the people here have been able to execute, certainly could not be attained without the importance of that, that culture that I've described. 

Lukasz Kiniewicz: Ken, thank you for sharing your time and insights with us today. It's been a pleasure. 

Ken Campbell: Thanks very much, Lukasz. Take care. 

Thanks for listening to The Heidrick and Struggles Leadership Podcast. To make sure you don't miss the next conversation, please subscribe to our channel on your preferred podcast app. And if you're listening via LinkedIn or YouTube, why not share this with your connections? Until next time.

About the interviewer

Lukasz Kiniewicz (lkiniewicz@heidrick.com) is co-leader of the Digital Infrastructure Sector in Europe; he is partner-in-charge in the Warsaw office.