Summary

In this interview, Heidrick & Struggles’ Uroš Zver speaks to Jennifer Granholm, the former United States Secretary of Energy, about what leadership looks like in the context of the global energy transition—a transformation that's technological, economic, political, and human all at once. Granholm discusses the value of storytelling as a leader as well as how leadership evolves under pressure, especially when the stakes involve generational change and long-term global challenges. She also reflects on the moments that shaped her leadership philosophy, shares insights on how to foster cultures that balance innovation and execution, and discusses what it takes to keep teams motivated in long-horizon, purpose-driven work.

Below is a full transcript of the episode, which has been lightly edited for clarity.

Welcome to The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. Heidrick is the premier global provider of diversified solutions across senior-level executive search, leadership, assessment and development, team and organizational effectiveness, and culture shaping. Every day, we speak with leaders around the world about how they're meeting rising expectations and managing through volatile times, thinking about individual leaders, teams, organizations, and society. Thank you for joining the conversation.

Uroš Zver: Hi, everyone. I'm Uroš Zver. I'm a partner at Heidrick & Struggles, where I work with businesses driving energy transition and decarbonization globally. Today on The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast, I'm delighted to be joined by Jennifer Granholm, former US secretary of energy, two-term governor of Michigan, and a long-term leader at the intersection of energy, innovation, and public policy. We're going to explore what leadership looks like in the context of the global energy transition, a transformation that's technological, economic, political, and human all at once. Jennifer's career has touched all of those dimensions, and I'm really looking forward to hearing her reflections on the leadership it takes to navigate this kind of change. Jennifer, thanks so much for joining us.

Jennifer Granholm: Oh, so great to be on. Thanks so much for having me.

Uroš Zver: Let's start by taking a broader view of your leadership journey. You led through a range of high-stakes environments, from governing a state during an economic crisis to shaping federal energy policy at a pivotal moment. These are all complex leadership challenges in their own right, but even more so in the context of climate and sustainability, where the stakes are existential and the timelines are long. If you look back over your career, what moments most shaped your approach to leadership, particularly during periods of disruption and uncertainty?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes, really great question. Every leader has some moments that are defining moments in their experience. And for me, the one that comes to mind immediately is when I was governor of Michigan. I was governor from 2002 through 2010, the end of 2010, so it was right in the beginning where we were starting to see and feel the loss of manufacturing jobs due to globalization and the movement of manufacturing to low-wage countries. And so for us in Michigan, we had such a large footprint in manufacturing that we started to see the trickles of this early on.

And in my first year of being governor, there was this little, tiny town in Michigan called Greenville. It had 8,000 people. And that little town was the home of the largest refrigerator factory in North America. It was Electrolux. And the people there were so proud of having this huge facility in this tiny town, almost everybody was connected to the factory. And so I got a call a few months in to my first term saying, “Hey, Gov”—this was from our Michigan Economic Development Corporation—saying, “Gov, we got a problem, because that little tiny town of Greenville is about to lose their refrigerator factory because it's going to move to Mexico.” And I said, you know, “I'm the new governor. Oh, not on my watch, we're not going to let that happen.” So I got my whole Cabinet together. We all went to Greenville, we talked with the leadership, and we presented to Electrolux this list of incredible incentives. And the UAW, the United Auto Workers, who represented the workers there, actually had a huge amount of concessions that they put on the table. And, you know, zero, and then we put on zero taxes for 20 years, we'll help to build you a new factory, all of that. The leadership of Electrolux took the list of incentives outside the room, the negotiating room, for about 17 minutes, and then they came back in, and they said, “Wow, this is the most generous any community has ever been at trying to keep jobs. But there's nothing you can do to compensate for the fact that we can pay $1.57 an hour in Juárez, Mexico, and so we're moving.”

When that announcement hit that little, tiny town, it was like a nuclear bomb went off. And that the last refrigerator came off the assembly line, the workers had a gathering. The community had a gathering that they called The Last Supper. It was at Klackle Orchard Pavilion, and I went, even though I wasn't invited because I had failed so badly in keeping their jobs, but I went because I wanted to grieve with them. In fact, it was like a community wake. And I went, when I went in and there were, you know, bunch of us—there were 2,000 people there sitting around eight top tables, eating out of box lunch lunches and this—I went up to the first table and this guy stands up and he says, “Governor, he says I'm 40 years old. I've worked at this factory for 20 years. My father worked at this factory. My grandfather worked at this factory. All I know is how to make refrigerators.” And then he looks at his two kids who were sitting next to him and he said, “So tell me, who is ever going to hire me?” And that question was asked by everybody in Klackle Orchard Pavilion that day, and honestly, by everybody in one of the 60,000 communities or 60,000 factories that left the United States in that first decade or early in—after China was admitted to the WTO.

That, to me, was like the canary in the coal mine for us in Michigan because we had so many towns like Greenville that had factories that were susceptible and vulnerable, and communities that were left behind with nothing—no policy, that was federal policy to either try to save those jobs or help to rebuild those communities. So that crisis really stoked in me the need to diversify Michigan's economy into new sectors. We had really been a manufacturing economy. Obviously, we're the home to the US domestic auto industry. And I started to study leadership at that point, and I read—I picked up this book called The Leadership Challenge by Kouzes and Posner, and in it, they have this quote, which I think is such a great quote. And it says, “Name any great leader, performer, scientist, athlete, activist, citizen. Chances are that the crucible of the person's crowning achievement was some distressing crisis, some wrenching change, tragic misfortune, or risky venture. Only challenge produces the opportunity for greatness.” A crisis gives you the moment. This is, that's the end of the quote, but I'm just saying that a crisis gives you the room to make big moves, and that's what we did in Michigan to try to diversify our economy into sectors like clean energy.

Uroš Zver: Such a great reminder that the leadership often gets defined in those crucible moments, and the area that we're talking about today has plenty of examples of those. Zooming in on sustainability, Jennifer, what have you learnt about leading within that space? Are there lessons from your public sector experience that you feel business leaders could really benefit from?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes, here's what I'd say, and this is a really hot lesson right now, because here in the United States there is such uncertainty over the public sector enactments like the Inflation Reduction Act or the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that were signed in to law under President Biden's term, and now are at risk because of new leadership, right? In the energy sector in particular, I think one of the biggest lessons is not to expect that government subsidy is going to be there, is going to smooth the way. The oscillation of government policy suggests that you should get your product made competitively and go to market competitively without counting on subsidy. Figure out what your market and your tech strategies are on a purely competitive basis, and then of course take advantage of the grants or subsidies when they come in order to help you scale further. But really, government policy is so—and I think that's not just true in the United States, I think it's true around the world. You know, it is complicated. Energy sustainability is really, really complicated. But from inside of companies, and certainly from inside of organizations, if you focus on sustainability as a mission or a core value, you'll also be able to attract talent. Because I found that young people really want to work for a place that is focused on changing the world, whether it's the primary mission or just a way of doing business.

Uroš Zver: Can you say something about that balancing act between managing both innovation for the future and execution? From what you've seen, how do you think leaders build cultures that support both thinking and actually getting things done?

Jennifer Granholm: I love this, that's such a great question because, of course, you need both, right? A good idea is nothing without execution, and you can't execute if you don't have a good idea on which to base your action.

Uroš Zver: Right. 

Jennifer Granholm: You have to figure out that you need to have folks on both ends of the spectrum and that you need to recruit for each end. It's not likely, you know, that you're going to find a researcher or a scientist that's doing, you know, for example, research on battery chemistry, who also has the same, has the specific sort of skill set that's associated with scaling a business. I mean, some people have both, but usually you need two sets of skills from two different entities. I think, I was just at Google this past week, and at one of their Moonshot companies, called Tapestry. And this Moonshot factory that Google has—and of course Google's a big organization, they can afford to do this—but it just is an example of how they think about it, which is that they recruit for Google X, people that are not going to be thinking about the core business, that will have only the freedom about solving the biggest problems. And then they spin out those, those ideas, those companies, to folks who can execute on what they learnt, right.

We have a version of that, I would say in the Department of Energy, we've got DOE Labs, where you've got research and scientists, and they're discovering the most basic scientific elements, and they have the freedom and the remit to do that. But they're not focused on scaling those big ideas. We have teams that are focused on applied research, so taking those ideas and applying them. Then we have teams that are focused on deploying those big ideas, so granting to companies who have the ability to do that scale and that deployment. So the bottom line is you need people on your teams with different sets of skills that are able to accomplish both, and you can't have one without the other.

Uroš Zver: Let's look closer at the people's side of the transition. Feels like climate action and decarbonization are truly generational efforts, and that means that leaders have to motivate teams over the long haul, and that's even when the immediate result might not be visible. So it takes a different mindset and often a different kind of team in the end. How have you seen leaders keep teams engaged and committed when work is long-term in this way, and where the impact really unfolds over years or even decades?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes. I mean, in this energy landscape, of course, the big, hairy, audacious goal is to get to net zero by 2050, and a lot of these workers won't necessarily even be alive in 2050. So how do you keep people moving toward a big goal like that? And of course, the answer is that you have to have big, hairy, audacious interim goals as well. So one of the interim goals that we had was the goal of getting 100% clean energy on our grid by 2035. That's still a long goal. Then we had another interim goal. You had to get 50% by 2030. We had the goal of doubling the size of our electric grid, and each of those had interim goals. I had a chart next to my desk with a big whiteboard, with the number of days that we had, that we knew we had. Of course, I'm a political appointee of President Biden. We knew we only had one term that we were aware of, right? So we counted down the days and then held everybody's feet to the fire and celebrated the successes at each of those interim goals.

When I was governor, the big, hairy goals were announced each year at the State of the State Address, and then those were translated. We are going to do this—you know, you tell people what you're going to do, and then you have your Cabinet meetings that measure against what you have told them you're going to do. And everybody has a role in fulfilling what you said you were going to do. And so at every Cabinet meeting, every person responsible for one of those goals had to stand up and report back on where they were, and we as a group collectively celebrated those. So having a mission, having interim goals and celebrating those goals, and making sure, and of course, on the people side, you have to make sure the people who are responsible for those are uplifted and given the opportunity not just to present but to be honored. You know, we would give people at Cabinet meetings standing ovations when they were able to meet their interim goals. It's just really important to have goals and celebrate the achievement of them.

Uroš Zver: Jennifer, I'm assuming that the way you brought those achievements to life was really by telling the stories. It wasn't just an enumeration of, hey, we did A, B, C, and D this month.

Jennifer Granholm: Absolutely, in terms of telling the people out there, and in terms of reinforcing to your own team, right? So, for example, at the Department of Energy, when we had all-hands meetings, town halls, which we had every month, we would make sure that the people who were responsible for those goals got up and told the story, but it was also put into a bigger context, right? So somebody might be working on battery solutions or on long-duration energy storage or on how many charging stations are out there, and they got up to be able to say what they did. So people who are responsible who got up to be able to say what they did. But it's all in the bigger picture, right, of that ultimate goal of getting to net zero by 2050, and if you can dive into it and underneath it. So, for example, one of the things we were trying to do is to get these domestically sourced, long-duration energy storage businesses operating. And one of the businesses was in—we're in West Virginia, where it was located on the site of an old steel mill. And the old steel mill had shut down and laid off all the people, all the people had moved away, young people had moved away. And you tell the story about this new place that is providing jobs for real people, and then it brings it home to people. So yes, telling the story both of the success internally and externally, and wrapping it around what the impact is to real people, I think, is really important.

Uroš Zver: Now that does resonate. I mean storytelling and purpose are so key to keeping people aligned, especially if it's over long periods of time.

Jennifer Granholm: Totally. And you know what? I just think it's really important, and I think a lot of times, you know, business founders, they're so focused on the technology, right, and they're so focused on getting it right. And often they're thinkers and, you know, in the classic Myers-Briggs line of thinking. I don't want to get into that too much, but some people are thinkers and some people are, or have a tendency to be, you know, more analytical thinkers, and some people are feelers and want to hear about what does it resonate on, you know, with real people out outside. You have to combine both of those, and one of the ways you do that is through mission, meaning that you have to inspire people to move toward this mission without the mission. And, you know, don't forget, the mission is what I say to folks all the time, “The mission is why people choose to work for you. The mission is what keeps people motivated.” Seeing that end and realizing the importance of it, you cannot overstate it enough.

Uroš Zver: And so when it comes to building those teams, and especially in sectors like energy, climate tech, sustainable finance—how have you seen leaders identify and support the kinds of individuals who end up thriving in these mission-driven, high-pressure environments?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes, I mean, mission, of course, is everything, as they say, but then I do think it's really important to have leaders who really are seeing their team, seeing them. You know, when I was governor, I have a body guard, right, the guy who travels with you and he would bring me—whenever we were, I was speaking somewhere, you know, he'd bring me, he'd add extra time to the calendar to make sure that he could bring me in to the back of the hall where I might be speaking, so that I could meet the janitors or the wait staff or the folks who are doing security. And he would say to me, “Gov, as long as I'm with you, I'm going to breathe life into your soul by making sure you see the people who are not seen, because you cannot lead them if you do not see them.”

And I think that is true, so true in leaders of organizations. It's easy for the CEOs to just assume that everybody's doing their job and that it's all working, but honestly, if they don't feel seen or appreciated or even exposed to the leader, then your organization is not going to be effective. Now, some organizations are so huge, it makes it difficult, and that's why town halls are important or giving people some way to access the leader. But I used to have my direct reports, because the Department of Energy has over 100,000 people, so it was difficult, obviously, to see every person. But I used to have my direct reports give me names of people who often were not praised, but had been doing a great job, or were not noticed and had been doing a great job. So I would just personally call them, and if they weren't there, I'd leave a message on their voicemail about what it was that they did. Being very specific, right, they don't want you just to have a general praise thing, you've got to be specific about what they did. And the feedback I got from these calls, especially if I left a message, was that they saved these messages. They may have played them for their family members. It's just so important that people feel seen, and they have to feel seen not just by the person at the top, but by their direct managers too, who really have the greatest impact on them.

I think people have to recognize that leadership in your organization can come from anywhere on the totem pole. That if you cultivate unauthorized leaders and you celebrate those people who don't have the title, you know, that enables other people to act, you know, it gives the message that it's OK for us to be leaders even though we don't have the title. And I think that's an important aspect too.

Uroš Zver: I wonder if we could just look ahead a little bit to the next phase of the energy transition. It does seem like there's growing recognition that this next phase is going to require a new wave of leadership, leaders who are agile in new ways, certainly interdisciplinary, and will also have to be globally minded. So I wonder if we could talk a little bit about how we build and support that next generation. For instance, how do you see the key leadership skills evolving? If you look at successful leadership in the energy sector in 10 years, in what ways might it be different from what's needed today?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes, I mean, this may be obvious, it probably is to anybody listening who has any hand in the energy space, but clearly you have to learn and use AI. I mean the key to energy use and solving the energy problem over the next decade is AI and hiring for people who are facile. Now AI is becoming easier and easier for individuals to use, but for your business to use as well, and this is true with all sorts of energy and climate technologies. But it's certainly true, as you know, for the data centers that are going to be powered by clean energy and using AI. So that nexus between energy and artificial intelligence is just critical.

And then the other thing I would say—this too may be obvious—but clearly energy touches every place and you have to be aware of the intersection of policy and technology. I mean you can't, you just can't be in a silo. You have to find leaders who are willing to educate the policymakers, that are willing to visit them. I mean I know a lot of people don't like, you know, I don't like politicians, and I don't want to get involved with that. Well, then, hire people who will be able to do that, because you have to educate them. You have to nurture the policymakers like you, like you would a prized employee, by giving them the information that will make them successful, as well as your entity, your company. Whether you're operating an electric grid or you're bringing a wind or solar or battery company online, I mean, policy is going to drive outcomes, so you need to drive policy.

Uroš Zver: One thing that we hear more and more about, as a skill, is coalition building. Something we at Heidrick call leading across boundaries and divides, especially across borders, sectors, disciplines, but also approaches that can be at odds in a meaningful way. How have you seen leaders do this well within the energy space, which is often fragmented, often even politically sensitive

Jennifer Granholm: Entities that are representing the clean energy industry, you know, of course you've got a battery association, you've got a clean power association that is a little bit broader, you have a solar energy industry association, etc., those—and they all work together, but you cannot—the importance of having, whether it's an association or at least a strategic outreach across players to be able to understand what's happening, both from a technology point of view and a business point of view and a policy point of—you know, operating in silos is no longer the way to be effective. I mean it's only through being able to learn from others that you are effective.

When I say this, I think about when I was governor, at the National Governors Associations, even this true even on the politician’s side. But from the National Governors Association, we used to have, when I was there, these closed door meetings with governors where we sort of went around the horn and talked about the things we were most proud of that had happened since the last time we were met, what were the initiatives that we undertook. It was completely a poaching session. So if somebody over in Vermont was doing something that I should copy about negotiating the price of Medicare drugs, you better believe I'm going to copy that and then take credit for it.

Uroš Zver: Right.

Jennifer Granholm: So being able to learn from others in settings that are not threatening is just so critical. That's true outside of your organization, but it's also true inside.

Uroš Zver: I wonder, are there any misconceptions that you feel are out there around what it means to lead in sustainability-focused organizations that you think everybody across all kinds of divides ought to be aware of?

Jennifer Granholm: Yes, interesting as you say this, there's two sort of things that come to mind, because we're in the middle of this battle right now in Washington about preserving some of these clean energy tax credits and supports that the Biden administration had. And I think one of the biggest misconceptions in that whole thing is that clean energy, for example, is expensive, when in fact it is the cheapest form of power. Even when you have solar plus batteries, it's cheaper than coal, it's cheaper than, and quicker, certainly, than a new natural gas plant, for example. So battling that misconception is a really important one because otherwise nothing happens, and there's a lot of disinformation, intentional disinformation, out there.

But the second thing is, is that clean energy will take away everybody's jobs in the fossil sector. And clearly, we call this a transition for a reason, because there will be a transition away from fossil fuels, but actually, I prefer to call it a transformation. Because folks who are working, for example, in the oil and gas sector, who have deep experience in the subsurface, can also easily move over to be experts in geothermal power, which is also...

Uroš Zver: Absolutely.

Jennifer Granholm: ...You know, drawing energy from beneath the surface. So working with people to understand that clean energy creates huge jobs, and they're future-facing jobs. It doesn't have to be either or either, because, obviously, you can decarbonize a fossil fuel sector as well. And in the United States right now, we, because of the Inflation Reduction Act, for example, we counted over 950 factories that had announced they were coming or expanding in the United States because of that law. And 85% of those 950 factories were in districts that voted for the current president, for Donald Trump, and for Republican members of Congress. And those Republican members of Congress, many of them have signed on to letters inside of Congress saying, “Please don't destroy these opportunities.” So the misinformation about job creation or cost, certainly was not real for them on the ground who saw their constituents getting hired in building solar panels in Georgia, for example, or extracting lithium in a sustainable way from mines in Nevada, and processing them in North Carolina. I mean those factories all over the country are in red places, and many places are red, meaning conservative places. And so there is an opportunity for unusual allies to come together, to your point, and try to have an impact, even though sometimes it's hard to have those conversations.

Uroš Zver: Jennifer, I wanted to go back to the question of future leaders and how we make sure that we're bringing up the next generation of folks who will drive the energy transition, specifically, and I'm interested in hearing your approach to mentorship and leadership development that you have employed throughout your career.

Jennifer Granholm: The mentoring piece of things and the recruitment of young people to mentor, I just know that leaders have to view this as the longevity strategy for the entity or the company. And I think one of the most important aspects of that is for the leader to model the way, meaning don't just get out there and give lofty speeches about how the company should operate or the mission. If you're not seen doing what you are talking about, then you are not going to be effective for those young people who are often, whose antennae are very sensitive to hypocrisy, I'll just say that. And I think that it's important to, as you mentor young people, to expose them to everything. So, for example, we did rotations at the Department of Energy of these young people we were recruiting and exposure for them to all parts of the types of technologies we were looking at, exposure for them to come to meetings, high-level meetings, letting them present. Maybe they're working on a project, so let them actually do the talking. And I would say this too, it’s really important because a lot of organizations, particularly ones that are more established, have sort of on-boarding practices that may be a little bit rote, but do not underestimate the value of really good on-boarding, of really good educating of young people coming in to the organization about whatever the trends are, the technologies are, the interesting stuff that's happening on the ground and how it relates to the business itself. Lunches with the boss, with a handful of young people on a rotating basis, lunches with managers and CEOs.

A lot of managers are not trained how to lead people, so making sure that they are, that the managers of those young people are good managers and have good leadership skills, knowing the importance of over-communicating by a factor of 10, the importance of integrity as a value, and note the importance of continuously inspiring the future, the mission of the organization. I just think it's such a fun thing, bringing in new folks and getting them excited about working for the organization. But it's not just the first day; it is the continuous improvement that both the leaders and the mentees should be taking on as an example.

Uroš Zver: I wonder if I could ask just one last question, following up on what you were saying there. We spoke earlier about the fact that there are a lot of folks coming up who are either already within the energy space and are really keen to continue making an impact over the coming years, and then a lot of folks who are either on the margins of the space or outside the space, who are seeing the part it will play touching every piece of our economies and our lives over the coming decades, and are looking at the leadership need of the space, of the sector. What would be your piece of leadership advice to someone early in their career who wants to make a meaningful contribution in this area?

Jennifer Granholm: I would definitely say there is no better time to jump in, and it's a little, right now in many places, it is a foggy time in terms of policy on clean energy. But you know what? You can do your best work in the fog. The clay, when it's soft, is the best time to start moulding. You can craft outcomes better than when the rules were set a long time ago and are in force. So take advantage of the fog. And then once you jump in, as a general rule, play two parts offense to one part defense, always looking to move forward. It's a great industry to be in and a great mission to be part of. You know, who wouldn't want to be part of saving our shared home?

Uroš Zver: That's a perfect note to end on. I want to thank you again for joining us and for sharing such thoughtful insights. You've offered a lot of wisdom that I know our audience is going to take away with them, about leading through complexity, staying purpose-driven, and developing the next generation of talent.

Jennifer Granholm: What a delight to be with you.

Thanks for listening to The Heidrick & Struggles Leadership Podcast. To make sure you don't miss the next conversation, please subscribe to our channel on your preferred podcast app. And if you're listening via LinkedIn or YouTube, why not share this with your connections? Until next time.

About the interviewer

Uroš Zver (uzver@heidrick.com) is a partner in Heidrick & Struggles’ Amsterdam office and a member of the global Climate & Sustainability Practice.